09:58:30 Hi everybody.
09:58:32 Hi, Richard Ross.
09:58:36 Hi.
09:58:51 Okay, so let's talk I had my volume turned down, sir.
09:59:00 Hello.
09:59:01 Hi. Hey, go.
09:59:12 So my dog yesterday was not a very embarrassing.
09:59:17 No, no, it was good, you, you had a lot of really senior people there, so Jerry Friedman, was Yeah.
09:59:29 he came out with a word word work I haven't seen or heard from him for me for years. Yeah. Yep.
09:59:37 So probably it was a good advertisement.
09:59:42 I mean the vv is always interested in trying to understand things so I thought you answer this question well involves interference term to try yeah yeah we'll just how you actually do the transverse.
10:00:00 Yeah, it's actually one of the things about it was it was very interesting how you go executive from the measurement to this picture, and I believe this actually helped me to understand this by discussion discussion with Valerie about this analysis, real
10:00:19 dependence of measurement. Yeah.
10:00:33 Yeah, you get a good advertising for the students graduate students.
10:00:39 Yeah, this was a lot of from early, when I mean, this is a because you know the students do the most, most of the work. Yeah.
10:01:09 Bobby Where's the other two.
10:01:25 You know where Yon is Ethan.
10:01:29 He shouldn't be here let me send him a message. Okay. Yes, I could do that carries now.
10:01:35 I've got him up on Slack, I bother him all the time. Okay.
10:01:51 Good morning everyone.
10:01:54 I reject a.
10:02:13 Okay, I see now.
10:02:18 We're saying back.
10:02:21 Then, should chain.
10:02:25 Okay, we're saying back
10:02:30 the closed caption for these names, it's just fantastic.
10:02:41 Actually surprising that that zoom much has such a strong connection to China has such problems with Chinese names.
10:02:52 Maybe it's our pronunciation of this Chinese probably our pronunciation.
10:02:58 Maybe if she says her name properly.
10:03:05 It'll translate it properly. Now let's try
10:03:27 Can you say your name, probably, she wasn't. She disappeared, she is, she's actually unmuted but I couldn't hear I hear me. Yes. Okay, looks.
10:03:37 Yeah.
10:03:40 So, my first name, x pronounced like Shah, and the Qing pronounced like chin.
10:03:50 So sad thing. Gotcha. Yeah.
10:04:00 No, I
10:04:00 didn't translate that very well.
10:04:06 Oh wow, so much for your
10:04:10 zoom being.
10:04:13 What is it is it based in China or is it just a Chinese product.
10:04:32 So,
10:04:33 okay, saying back song so I guess we're all here.
10:04:37 Amen. Why don't you start.
10:04:41 I haven't heard anything from Germany, yet. And I don't know if there's any updates in their status. In the meanwhile I spend most of my time cleaning up some of the details of the data several runs with slightly different settings I'm just trying to
10:04:58 verify their outputs, and I've been spending some time on experimenting different methods on the proton radius extraction.
10:05:10 And I guess I will give a report on that, once I think I reached some level of conclusions.
10:05:18 but not how.
10:05:20 Okay, sounds good. So, so yeah man we're meeting today at four hours and I right yes that's right. So you go send out a reminder.
10:05:29 Yeah, okay, you'll send out the zoom link I didn't. Yeah, yeah. Okay, I will send a reminder around three with the summit.
10:05:37 Okay.
10:05:37 Yeah, that's good I would have forgotten that
10:05:42 I have so many meetings I actually have another meeting right now and another meeting right now, so too many meetings.
10:05:55 Okay.
10:05:58 Um, so for t Beck's.
10:06:00 I wanted to make sure that Ethan and yon and pizza. Were on.
10:06:07 We've received.
10:06:09 This is repeating it for some people.
10:06:12 We've received the requests for testing time from Marcel current.
10:06:20 The test beam has been running since March, with restrictions, no more than two people in accounting room or in the experimental area of time masks and
10:06:37 social distancing in other places, the cafeterias are open.
10:06:44 There's rooms available at the guest house but your, your segregated blah blah blah. Anyway, it seems to be running and.
10:06:55 So, the kitchen set probably closed, I, they didn't say anything specifically but yeah I would think so. So if we go their sustenance will be a problem.
10:07:11 No I don't think so.
10:07:13 Restaurants are closed.
10:07:15 Well, I'm black so you cannot sit outside because it's raining all the time.
10:07:22 I've sat outside of amber on many occasion. Anyway, I'm not proposing that we go next week, what I'm thinking is, do we want to put in a request for two weeks.
10:07:36 At the end of October or November.
10:07:43 And this guarantees that you cannot sit outside.
10:07:48 But yeah, we should I think we should.
10:07:51 Yeah. And would you be able to come. Yeah, I think there's two things that are needed. You know I can get the calorie imagery there and I can set up the calorie matter, but the software and the electronics needs john I think or a beat so possibly.
10:08:11 I don't know if Ethan's that familiar with it.
10:08:15 So I think I could come. Okay.
10:08:20 especially if you can combine it with the trip to psi, because then I can pave a flight from that, because I have money for that. And we still have money from the pier.
10:08:34 Okay.
10:08:35 Okay, so we can you know say you're an honorary MIT person.
10:08:40 I'm MIT affiliate. Yeah, yeah.
10:08:45 So, but yeah we've, I can't remember how much we have.
10:08:53 But certainly it's enough to pay a couple of their fingers for
10:09:01 for you and maybe for
10:09:05 one of our students are a couple of our students whenever I think so it's very likely that they could travel, so I'm vaccinated.
10:09:15 Gemini by event should be better. Yeah, I have a green card so I can come back.
10:09:24 They're talking about opening up Europe for June, but, you know, that's, and Mars and the numbers explode again and they close it down again. Yeah.
10:09:33 Marcel said they understood that it's uncertain times still, and, you know, we'll just play it by ear. Yeah, no, I think we should make that maybe we should make make a request.
10:09:46 Yeah, um, is there any kind of visa requirement that's necessary for working at the lab. No. Okay. Not, not for sure terms, if you would go to Europe for longer than you need one, but I think.
10:09:58 Okay. Yeah.
10:10:01 You need a passport.
10:10:02 You probably need to be vaccinated.
10:10:07 And I have one and I am so that should be fine. Yeah, yeah. So, I don't know which of the students would be interested in coming. Patrick I think expressed an interest.
10:10:21 I don't know Bobby Are you interested again or
10:10:30 and Bobby still muted.
10:10:36 Okay.
10:10:42 Anyway, I'll ask Bobby offline or something. That's what in the chat that his microphone is not working so.
10:10:45 Okay.
10:10:47 The problem is actually for us Americans to go to Germany right now because of it. Right, right. That's, that's the problem. Yeah, we still got to get approval from do we not dug in the bobby wrote in the chair that it depends on the class will schedule,
10:11:01 but it's possible. Ok, ok, and saying back.
10:11:09 Yes, I'm here, I'm sorry.
10:11:12 Is this about to fly to Germany.
10:11:14 Well, yeah. Are you interested in going to Germany again for the test Spain mentioned, because it was fixed but yeah I said, I'd say, well, for now.
10:11:32 Okay.
10:11:31 I think you're actually but up to. Yeah.
10:11:35 Yeah. Okay, fine.
10:11:37 So, you know, and other people are welcome to come to a visa. Are you able to travel.
10:11:53 Are we in October, November, assuming a pandemic. So, so I don't need to see. So the problematic think the. So, from me I, I started with my widening fellowship.
10:12:05 And here I'm legally
10:12:11 obliged to work exclusively on this action.
10:12:16 So, I will need to see how can I put this in.
10:12:22 So, I will try everything that I can go but it may be that you to this requirements of European Union to work exclusively on on what I stated in my project I will not be able to come because they consider, then this that they working on something else.
10:12:45 Yeah. Okay. Well, so we'll see, we'll see.
10:12:52 Yeah, So it's a little bit complicated for me.
10:12:56 I'm Richard Do you know the dates for the DMP maybe.
10:13:03 Yeah, it's 11 to 14.
10:13:05 Okay, so.
10:13:09 So the following week following two weeks, would be a possibility yeah wouldn't interfere with it. Right, okay.
10:13:19 And, yeah, I'm sorry. Alec left a chat platform visa is expiring this man does not it is our blog me stay in United States because the future is all about the entry United States.
10:13:33 Yeah, but I forgot to extend this these are because I'll tell you later is just a story with 18 extended.
10:13:45 Coming back to Germany right now us cannot travel to Germany. Right, that's the German mission. Yeah, so you need a special exemption for that. Yeah, that might be different in October.
10:13:56 Yeah, no, I think a lot of it will be okay anyway so I'm going to write to Marcel, and asked for two weeks after they
10:14:11 say starting on the 18th, and later.
10:14:21 So, Okay.
10:14:24 Okay, I'll do that. And we can start out details when we know a little brother gets a little bit closer to that time, and we know what this, I mean this isn't there also the fJ are well EC glass at a calorie amateur aspect to this to Doug made in principle
10:14:43 you could have.
10:14:45 Yes Yes No I didn't need more manpower.
10:14:51 You should probably shake that tree as well. Yeah, no, I honestly Europeans, I think they're like Carl isn't Carlos at circlet I think or say, Yeah, no, I mentioned this during the EM cow, meeting the other day.
10:15:10 No one immediately volunteered. But I wanted to raise it again and, yeah, no, I think it's good to go ahead and reserve the weeks and then once it's real, then I think the discussion becomes more real to I mean obviously covered has to be in a better
10:15:26 place than it is right now, we, we hope that but assuming that I guess just see if if you couldn't get other, and also within t facts I mean, are there other groups, not on the phone here that are.
10:15:40 Yes, that may, you know, yeah.
10:15:46 Everyone from Michigan sale, you would be interested because it in a month might mix it with a muse.
10:15:55 Yeah, yeah, meeting in Switzerland, so.
10:16:00 So yeah, I think there are other groups that might participate, and I wanted to talk with Tanya about getting some
10:16:11 scintillating ceramic glass crystals. But yeah, that sounds good. I mean, just another aspect of all this, so we did have a run and we did take data and people did analyze it is there a publication coming out of that like a name or something, that would
10:16:27 be would be good. I think that would be good. We've certainly Ethan, and the visa have given a lot of presentations along those lines. Yeah, that's what I remember.
10:16:40 I mean, writing it up and having a publication I mean that that kind of also impresses people that they get something out of it, you know. Yeah.
10:16:49 And, you know, originally Our plan was to test three readouts systems in parallel triggered kind digitize there, and then a wave board or there was the other readout scheme.
10:17:08 from NASA Drs. So, you know, we can do that, and maybe attract people from IMFNO Jaan says they're pushing time. Rather, I don't know if INFN is pushing that but Marco is pushing that maybe he was just very unhappy with f5 maybe it didn't work.
10:17:34 I don't know, that's all we can investigate. Yeah. So, yeah, I think there's opportunity.
10:17:43 It's just logistically you can.
10:17:48 You could conceivably have two people in the experimental area setting up and two people in the conference room setting up the electronics and computers, but everyone else will have to be off site so you would probably run half days with one group and
10:18:07 half evenings or the other half of the day with some other groups and things like that. Anyway, I can all be sorted out.
10:18:17 Okay, that's all I wanted to raise for two packs unless there's questions. I mean for the pics. I mean, even move the oldest stuff which he and I were written in depicts proposal.
10:18:36 Concerning the test run. So, and the stuff which I presented and Ethan to, I don't know, do we want to build more on this or for the publication or mean publication or.
10:18:56 Is this enough or something
10:19:00 like you've presented is enough. But, Ethan, you want to chime in, and I was actually thinking along the same lines of a visa that something we need to decide.
10:19:11 So yeah, everything that was in the proposal that, that if he said I wrote a copy to an Overleaf and it's sitting there, some figures some, some pictures of the setup but it we just never got around to finishing it and now that we're close to the next
10:19:26 beam time do we want to wait until we have results from from then, or just quickly finish this up and submit it to them. I think quickly finish this up because the five by five should be quite different.
10:19:41 Okay, I agree completely every run could have a pen to paper. So yeah, that's perfectly reasonable. Okay, I'm, I'm happy with more papers. Yeah, I need to feature.
10:19:57 I just want to throw out I become an associate editor of Israel FC is. And so I'm in this is propaganda. So, c is going to start an instrumentation section.
10:20:15 Encourage papers and instrumentation and also EIC related, so.
10:20:22 So that's, you should know, you should know that. So, so just for interest you just submitted a very very long paper, to name a about the mines target.
10:20:32 Yep.
10:20:41 What has this been the paper for PRC, I don't, I mean I think they just we just we had a whole meeting at the APR meaning on wording the statement.
10:20:47 I think I think just try it, you know, I see the paper that pizza and Bill Dolly and I wrote was held up.
10:20:55 And we did this simulation or pizza did the simulations of the 16th from alpha which was just all instrumentation and that actually got approved before this so I would try, I mean I would just send them the pace and it would go to.
10:21:11 I'll be in the loop probably so just send it to Israel FC, guys, I think they unfortunately already send it to me.
10:21:29 Right. They kicked me out. I don't support as a very much, they had rather have it in PRC that anywhere else right. Yeah, well, so I will push for that a little bit more if you think it has a chance to try it, you know i think it's it's kind of new and
10:21:42 we'll see. Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's it's like 60 pages so far it's very long. It's like a special yeah yeah I don't know you know I don't know. I mean, I mean the name is always been good i you know i don't i i want to stay on the positive side that they
10:21:58 don't give you too much grief to publish things generally. I mean I guess this is Rob letters is notorious.
10:22:09 I mean facade see has, you know, a fairly straight straight real you know it's a real refereeing process I get the impression that Nima does kind of a glance at it or something.
10:22:20 Yeah, exactly, but whatever i you know i saw i like that and they may you know, I, I'm not trying to be pejorative against name because I we publish ourselves and it's very valuable but I'm just telling you to filter out see ones instrumentation papers.
10:22:37 So, okay, I will follow that, too. And yeah, cool.
10:22:44 get, get, Ethan enemy to get this paper written and submitted, I would say, yeah, this, this summer them will have another paper on the next phase.
10:22:54 Okay, okay.
10:22:55 If you need any help writing, you know the mechanical setup and things like that, you know, send me a link or whatever. Oh, yeah, I'll send you the Overleaf Yeah.
10:23:07 Yeah. Nice.
10:23:10 Manager of this particular paper. Yeah.
10:23:15 I can write something about like the the software or electronics or something to come on now. Okay, I'll send it to both of you right now.
10:23:26 Yeah, okay, I'll send it to both of you right now. The thing about this red sea just to mention is that they want scientific justification. So let's suppose I'm not saying you want to submit this paper to fish Red Sea but you would need a section on you know on white collar imagery is important.
10:23:40 collar imagery is important. I mean you know it's straightforward but some some scientific context for it i think is what they're saying, which, which I think is normally in these papers anyway.
10:23:49 Yeah.
10:23:52 And I don't know, is there any way we can officially quote, The Tanya is consortium or.
10:23:59 Sure. I mean, you know, for developing. Yeah, well ring a tree. Yeah, yeah, always, you can always like quote.
10:24:10 Tanya is a personal communication and right pi of the whatever consultant, you can reference, there was a official submission wasn't there last November, the consortium, you can reference that document whatever whatever it's called it's probably also
10:24:28 in the yellow report. Yeah that's right yeah that's right yeah also reference the airport. Yeah, absolutely. The airport has got to be referenced at anything to do with the I say it does.
10:24:43 Yeah.
10:24:43 It's like the Standard
10:24:43 Bible.
10:24:44 Yeah.
10:24:45 Okay, that's I'll move this forward.
10:24:52 I'm anything out of trial.
10:24:56 Dark light related.
10:24:59 Yeah, I haven't heard anything with the either you know No, it's, it's a little strange I won't say but maybe that's how they do things, I keep checking my spam folder, I got vaccinated last Thursday, so I did over the weekend catch up on yawns talk I
10:25:18 thought it went very well and I thought you know there were senior people engaged in the discussion so I thought it, I thought.
10:25:27 The questions were really good I think, like, you know, I don't know if they know. But if they know, they certainly would not have said, oh yeah next time hopefully you can come yeah exactly I was always my ears were kind of tuned to detect any signal
10:25:43 and the thing I heard was positive and supportive so that's all I can say from what I from the questioning i thought you know some of the questions were good, and they weren't all softball questions, I mean I think you answered them well and the discussion
10:26:03 was good. So, yeah, so I don't know, and made it so that nobody.
10:26:07 Oh god. Yeah.
10:26:22 It was fine.
10:26:13 It's really nice you know after the fact to be able to watch it, you know, and listen to all the discussion I mean you lose nothing. Yeah, really audit while you obviously can participate in the discussion but yeah, that was not my interest but it's really
10:26:27 nice that these are all recorded. Yeah.
10:26:33 that these are all recorded. Yeah. Okay, what's next.
10:26:40 Oh, before I forget, apparently the Elena's colloquium the week after next is going to be by the lattice people, the people who did the lattice calculation that pushes the corrections towards the standard model so just follow me on YouTube.
10:26:55 Yeah, so I BMW. Okay, cool. Yeah, so I think it's a week after next, so you might want to watch for the I definitely recommend be interested that's Monday at four I guess.
10:27:07 Not sure if I trust these calculations, to be honest. Well I think there'll be an interesting discussion here because there's a lot of lattice expertise at MIT so it'll be interesting to hear what people say now.
10:27:21 Okay, um, anything update on ha
10:27:28 yeah no I think it's going well the lots of meetings and simulations are starting and Igor mini Igor showed he was at, and judging were at the meeting last week it was, I couldn't go yeah so last Friday we started John's a working group on exclusive processes.
10:27:49 So, A, we decided that we will start the performance simulations, on the VCs and the BMP four H.
10:28:10 And of course we'll extend it afterwards, also for a cases when we perform my exclusive scattered and new clothes on problems that is in Luke lose resident free proton but they same.
10:28:23 A it started right now so the group is formed and we're beginning to work on it. Okay, good.
10:28:23 That's actually the software. Ha, software meeting right now it's every two weeks at 10.
10:28:30 So maybe we could move for this meeting a little bit.
10:28:36 Yeah, I mean, point. I mean my my comment, like term teaching and the week after next so actually making a new time is fine.
10:28:45 Yeah, maybe maybe in the next couple of weeks to ship. Yeah. plan.
10:28:50 Let's try and find a new time for the next week is no problem it's every two weeks so next week is fine. Okay, yeah, no, I think my classes are more or less done the next week so yeah we should find a new time.
10:29:02 So, I will also need to remove myself from a chance.
10:29:15 Yeah I know, I know, I will I will send email to war. So whether you're working on, on in the fellowship with them working can, I can give you a seminar.
10:29:30 No, no.
10:29:32 So, I will work on CP and CPD a symmetry measurements using called the positive only on the key.
10:29:46 Okay, so let's doesn't have much overlap is what we do. Unfortunately, no, no, no, I'm going back to below.
10:29:56 One me the energies out. Okay, back to basics.
10:30:01 Sounds interesting No, no. So, we will repurpose actually detectors which are used for Positron Emission Tomography model for my diploma thesis knife.
10:30:20 An experimental effort at Zagreb.
10:30:25 I think this.
10:30:35 This goes under. I think all hit a conference on this.
10:30:32 Like a tabletop experiments in fundamental science of dark light as a tabletop experiment. Yeah, so yeah.
10:30:46 Strong table, strong legs but yeah, I mean, so it's very interesting experiment so people did this like 10 years ago and there was no new experiments in the meantime.
10:31:02 And last year. I think that 32 K.
10:31:09 In Japan, they publish
10:31:14 a paper from neutrino was elation that they see.
10:31:22 They see like CP violation electronics indication of CP violation electronic system.
10:31:30 So CP is violated the hydraulic system but it was not yet measured in electronic systems.
10:31:40 So, yeah, maybe we get you for a colloquium in the fall. Well, that's cool. Yeah, of course.
10:31:56 European Union in spirit would be very happy about a lot of seminars. Yeah, yeah, good, though. Yeah, so, and I still discovering all obligations and stuff, which is written in a contract so I'm sorry about this.
10:32:08 Yeah.
10:32:10 That's too bad.
10:32:12 It's too bad that we aren't able to participate more in the things that we're doing now. So, yeah, I understand I understand, but also okay for a lot of things to do here.
10:32:23 Sure. Oh, so I understand, I realized I started to over commit to some things. Yeah. Okay, well maybe in the future you can. Yeah. How long was that fellowship.
10:32:37 That's two years yeah so often so yes we have free again.
10:32:42 Uh huh.
10:32:43 Or I need to write better like slavery context.
10:32:48 But you need to do something I see you at least in mind.
10:32:51 Yeah.
10:32:52 Yes, I know, I know, I mean, the question is also i in the, in the, what's the name proposal, be measured vaguely that I will also participate in other experiments of the group so in mines in for Scotty, and everything but it's not clear, I will need
10:33:15 to ask my project officer. Okay.
10:33:19 Can I also use other funding to go there or I don't need to use only my funding can be discovered or not so I brought some detailed plan and some, let's say they stuff, so it looks to see how can I Vigo myself into other stuff.
10:33:41 Good.
10:33:43 Ari eight Evita, are you associated with MIT through like john is.
10:33:52 I don't know how I'm, I mean I still have this.
10:33:59 What's the name called. Yeah.
10:34:03 But I'm just wondering because you know we've got the, the peer funding for the test framework for cheap x, that can support people that are associated with MIT.
10:34:21 So, I mean, if I would, I would leave this account like a guest cone.
10:34:31 And just to have access to the old data on the Dropbox, it's something like this.
10:34:39 It's it's complicated. If I get funding from outside or something that's, that's no no in this account. Okay. So, okay, well, I like to keep these goodies, which are there but no money, no money.
10:34:58 Okay, European wants European Union's wants only that they receive money from them now from mobile now.
10:35:06 Okay. I'm just one last piece of information quickly about the electromagnetic calendar imagery that Tanya is leading you know we've been talking with the check.
10:35:21 Company Christ or they now have a US office, and they participated in the meeting, and they're very interested in, not only providing crystals, but also silicon.
10:35:38 For the multipliers side for reading out the crystals and doing electronics. So, you know, that was a possible collaboration that they're proposing with, with the electromagnetic Keller amateur but it also works routine packs and the chest pains and all
10:36:02 the rest.
10:36:03 Okay, that's all I had to anything else before we go to class 12.
10:36:18 And let's go to class 12 and we see everyone else.
10:36:21 Next week if not sooner.
10:36:24 Okay. Bye.
10:36:27 Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.
10:36:32 So I guess our three year renewal went in.
10:36:38 And I actually had to, I got a response from Pam's a prompt to fill out products which I did last night so I think it should be with gold on this point.
10:36:51 So thanks to everybody who worked on, on that. Yeah.
10:36:56 That can be out of the way with that.
10:36:59 Yeah.
10:37:02 So, um, before we actually go around, um, one thing I mean that is unclear to me really is, how impactful, the computing resources that we put in place at Bates are for class 12 so shushing I know we'll talk about a she's actually trying to quantify it
10:37:29 but, but, you know, we bought
10:37:33 320 cores and a petabyte of desk or whatever and, at least in in the in the in the summary tables or whatever that the histograms to come around, I mean what the MIT contribution to class 12 computing is like a few percent.
10:37:54 And so I think Syracuse is constantly dominating it, which, which is fine you know I just thought I just need to understand this I mean if if we're like a couple of percent of class 12.
10:38:07 Even doubling what we've done is not going to have much of an impact and maybe it's not even needed. So, I mean that that's the question I wanted to pose because I don't get a strong sense, maybe maybe for our local group.
10:38:19 You know, for the students and the analysis that are in progress, it's really good to have access, you know, to the, to the resources, but I'm just trying to we're trying to understand, you know, what the impact of what we already put in place, as I guess
10:38:33 that's what I'm trying to understand and it's not clear to me.
10:38:40 So I don't know cherishing did you want to say something because I know you're, you're trying to us.
10:38:48 So once I'm trying to figure out is for those course we we have purchased that installed at tier two.
10:39:06 I guess that is tier two right. So, I don't know if
10:39:06 any people in our group or beyond our group can use it, like,
10:39:18 not, not forecast Monte Carlo but for other parables. So, I mean, if, if those course we purchased are open to, for example,
10:39:36 the summit system at MIT, or something so because cost. If we only look at cost health Monte Carlo, mit indeed contributes to very small portion.
10:39:52 Um, but if we talk about the MIT summit itself. I don't know if those course, I think we will be interested in.
10:40:03 If those course are playing any significant roles.
10:40:12 But let me make sure that the initial purpose of
10:40:20 this purchase, are they should they should they be dedicated for cluster Monte Carlo of size computing resource.
10:40:31 I mean, for from any proposal or something else.
10:40:39 I mean, that was the general intention, I mean this Bobby and Steinberg, and Patrick worked on implementing interface for the collaboration, which is used, you know, and, at least in the discussions of few, a year or two ago, we were led to believe that
10:41:04 having, you know.
10:41:08 Yeah, kind of resources we put in place would would have a kind of basic needs, you know some significant contribution to class 12 offside my Carla that was my understanding, maybe I didn't understand it right but yeah so if i may be other groups have
10:41:24 put in place a lot more resources which is fine, you know, we're not, we're trying to, we have, we don't have. I mean, we, we have some resources that we can spend on things and if, if the resources are not very effective in in class computing that's
10:41:41 fine we'll find other ways to put our words words put our resources but maybe, maybe they're really important for our group locally in a way that they're not for the broad collaboration I just don't know, but I'm trying to understand it.
10:41:54 Yeah, insights anybody has would be would be welcome so
10:42:01 maybe is the correct question is to ask a Why is the Syracuse's contribute so much. Yeah.
10:42:12 I'm not looking because you can see that the except of Syracuse University all other a, you know, connected to Chicago IAI NFL, all of them may contribute roughly similar amount of CPU.
10:42:30 So maybe maybe you know maybe during the last time, all the Syracuse cluster is available to run class. Yes.
10:42:38 That's good. So maybe you know you you looking over a specific point of time, when a because I understand that theory to have only dedicated CPUs of the UN, or a purchase.
10:43:04 But this is only a small production from all a tear to see if you know sample it. Then, at the point the time when they, the theater is free. The maybe it will be there's a dominant contribution to this.
10:43:13 No, actually, what something you just said I was not aware of, I thought MIT was alone and being a few percent but what you've just said is that it's only Syracuse is so dominant that basically all the other groups are comfortable is that share my screen.
10:43:29 If we have some. You can see here is this is this is a screen. Yes.
10:43:34 Okay, so, so you're for example this point of time is the CPU hours. Yeah I know I see it here yeah yeah you can see it gave about seven k well connected with gave 22.
10:43:49 k. So, yeah, seven out of 22 is not measurable. Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, we can we can easily double it you know if we wanted to.
10:43:58 If you know will resources but I just wondering Is that a wise use of our fun, you know.
10:44:07 So, on this day before setup was was 38 K. And so, so, who run, I mean, Murray must know this does he does he have an understanding of this.
10:44:20 We can ask him today. He. Yeah, I mean, I think, I think you ask the right question what is Syracuse, the wing.
10:44:37 And because you can see that they when they look on the old universities they give roughly the same amount and he's in the in the top part, we have a case to fix resident for a lot of universities, they don't have a case number.
10:44:48 Yeah, but Syracuse's orders of magnitude higher yeah yeah but, but, for example, it's this day but here you can see that they comfortable, then we know MIT get five, and they said it was 70.
10:45:03 Yeah, but Syracuse is the green on that graph. Yes, yes, definitely dummy dominate our real question, what they're doing that, maybe no maybe their farms free.
10:45:17 Yeah, no, I think understanding that you know the fact that, Connecticut is more than MIT fine by some factors, okay. But the question is why, how was Syracuse so dominant and what resources do they have their, you know, because an end is another fact
10:45:35 I mean, we're talking maybe a factor of two, at MIT we're not, I don't, we're not talking about a factor of 10, you know, we don't have we're not in any funding scenario, we're not going to put 10 times what we put in already but we might put it you know
10:45:48 it's possible we could decide to put a factor of two, but I'm only convinced to do this if I am convinced that it's really good for us for a group and for class 12, but maybe maybe a I don't know maybe Bobby But Bob his microphone was doing a problem,
10:46:05 maybe Sandy can help us with this one. What is a opportunistic sites, because you can see that for Syracuse you have almost the 800, K, while at MIT you get the both 40.
10:46:26 Okay, so I don't know what is the meaning pauses support analytics I know that okay but I think it may be doing come to the meeting with Morrie, you know, we can ask him and then they have some better understanding.
10:46:36 Now that's good. Yeah, I mean the other way to come at this, and we don't have to have a long discussion here though is for the students for each of the three analyses how many Monte Carlo events do you think you will need for your cross section extraction.
10:46:49 And where's it going to come from and.
10:46:53 Is that going to be readily accessible on the timescale we need it, or, or what, you know, do you have a kind of a, an understanding of this or.
10:47:05 I mean honestly said we don't have that you know NFL an answer right now but I mean in the end we want the priorities to get these cross sections extracted, you know as soon as we can.
10:47:13 And anything we need that will help you do that will do it.
10:47:17 But we just have to understand what's needed and how we can do it, how can we can be effective.
10:47:24 So you might think about that.
10:47:31 So I think the most effective way for those purchase course, or any course that are going to be presented in the future is to make make is to make them only available locally so that's
10:47:52 that those chorus concert for the cross section extraction directly.
10:48:01 I have no problem to do that. But is that the most effective way to use.
10:48:11 I don't know you know, maybe, maybe we need to, if we want to do that we need to figure out if that's how, how to proceed. Or, if that is allowed.
10:48:20 Well, what the official word from Christoph and I believe him because I'll policies that you will never get less than what you put in that you can only, you know, gain.
10:48:31 So, but, you know, that's what he says. But anyway, I think.
10:48:41 Good. I mean, I think, let's try and understand it, understand what is this present situation and then I think also an understanding of what do we need to do the analysis is are the two kind of drivers and then we can, we purchase or we set up computing
10:48:57 to be most effective to kind of get to those goals. Yeah, but they want two dimensions and they don't think that they're working locally, is a good idea because in any case when we submitted Susan James portal.
10:49:10 We get access not only to them at CPU is also for Siracusa is CPUs, but I remember that the during our last meeting with the morning to in order to implement the generators and stuff exists in locally in this submit the system.
10:49:31 It also works it needs to be done. Yeah, jL up it's already working in a, you know, you only submitted. So I don't know if his overhead by moving cameras in locally, it yeah no I tend to agree with you but but we need to we need to understand all of this.
10:49:51 I don't I don't understand it, and maybe we're focusing on the wrong number looking at this table as, you know, I just don't know and but the question really is what's needed for the, for the cross section extraction.
10:50:05 How many million events, do you need when you need when you need it, you know, and how are you going to get it. You know, I mean, yeah, but I think. Now, one of the things that we need to understand before we go to the full simulation or a run for the
10:50:30 time we need to understand why we have some discrepancy. For example, a by not analysis. Yeah, I mean all the, that's another problem okay but I'm just saying, you know, just because we have many problems, I mean I think this computing is a resource driven issue.
10:50:41 issue. We invested, you know, resources and I think we just need to understand what we get, how does it work, and is it working the way we want. And I
10:50:53 think there are other issues but I think understanding how many million events you will need and how long it will take you know how many cores, a core hours or whatever the unit is.
10:51:06 If you wait till the end of this year and then you find out well you don't even have to wait six months or something you know i don't think you want that so I think you really do have to plan ahead.
10:51:16 To some degree.
10:51:20 Okay, good.
10:51:21 So let's go around, see if there's any any updates. So, I don't know, Bobby I maybe Bobby's not functioning.
10:51:29 Are you.
10:51:30 I think I fixed the, can you hear me. Yeah, I can hear you, okay yeah I managed to resolve it.
10:51:39 Yeah, so analysis wise, so regarding our previous discussion, just now.
10:51:45 Yeah, I'm not I personally am not sure.
10:51:49 I've sent some emails to some people about writing statistics and haven't heard back yet. So, talk with more today.
10:51:57 Analysis wise.
10:52:01 I'm still working on trying to get an acceptance correction for a different,
10:52:08 different kinematic then. Yeah. Last week or week and a half ago I worked through Felicity studies and compared with Andre Kim's results, and it seemed reasonable.
10:52:24 I'm still waiting to hear back from him for kind of going further on that end.
10:52:30 And currently, I'm, I think, Volker was the one who suggested or maybe you I'm not sure to kind of work backwards a little bit from the classics result.
10:52:40 What you know what corrections what I need in order to have, you know, comparable results for the class called data.
10:52:47 And so I'm working on that in parallel with working I simulated events a new kinematic then that has higher statistics or cost. Well, that's not kind of in the edge.
10:52:59 And I'm thinking this week, I will have some results there to share our son around in a couple days.
10:53:07 This all kind of still try and again trying to resolve this issue of, you know, I am just trying to get really kind of a reasonable match for my data compared to the classic results.
10:53:20 So, no, no big result no big, you know, improvement so far.
10:53:25 Okay.
10:53:27 Um, so the beam a semi the fact that you've been a cemetery checks out.
10:53:33 I mean, is it I guess all the relative luminosity is have to be right to do that.
10:53:39 But the absolute could be off and but I guess the, the event selection must be reasonably right to Isn't that right, yeah I've compared with under in the past are our, you know event.
10:53:55 You know, event by event and we agree I think something like at the 10% level. Maybe 5% level which is not great but it's, you know, so, so you have you cross check like the number of the vs events and given running period or something yes that's how
10:54:12 Yes, that's right. Well that checks out at 10%.
10:54:34 Yeah, I think I might be a little bit better than that now, but I'm good, okay well that's all right well that's that's actually very good because I mean there's a lot goes into that.
10:54:27 So it's really the formation so you have the number of events, more or less, right.
10:54:33 So then it's the absolute like the acceptance and the luminosity.
10:54:39 Really, I guess.
10:54:41 I mean there are the two big things that go in.
10:54:42 Yeah, that's, that's pretty much right. So I'm kind of working through slowly on getting trying to calculate the sevens Christian again I'm kind of starting from scratch, and I'm seeing if I'm making a logical messed up somewhere.
10:54:57 Yeah.
10:54:59 But yeah, it smells like it's in the acceptance I mean the luminosity is one kind of number and a unit I assume you've checked that a few times, yeah same back and I came to the same really smelling like it's the acceptance.
10:55:13 Yeah. Yep.
10:55:15 Okay, good. So, I'm working on it. Yeah, thanks Bobby, and you have some issue with computers do you I know Doug you're in contact with dogs. So, I mean I just wanted to say, you know, you need to spend some money to solve your problems just do it.
10:55:31 Yeah, it's. I've actually been some when this laptop was purchased it came with the highest level of warranty support.
10:55:39 Because of its cost rightfully so. And I suppose I've been annoying Villanova warranty service enough that they filed my computer for full replacement.
10:55:54 And so, I guess that's.
10:56:04 It's just kind of buggy, I would say it actually works fine for doing the hard physics analysis, but the actual day to day features is kind of buggy, so we'll see how it goes.
10:56:04 I don't think it should cost anything anyone anyone, any money.
10:56:08 Well, just, you know, what I would suggest is that they said they would send you a new one.
10:56:17 Do you know when that arrives.
10:56:20 They said it would be a few, they said it would be a few weeks. Okay.
10:56:24 And Did they say anything about having the old one back.
10:56:28 Yeah, I asked them and they said they do something like, I'll have to, you know, transfer files over and then, you know, wipe the drive and then return it somehow, but I'm sure.
10:56:43 But, yeah, right. You know, I think one of the things we should consider is purchasing a spare a laptop, just so that if something happens to any of your laptops you Bobby, are
10:57:01 you man anybody that there's another laptop that you can quickly take over you don't have to wait. Right. You know,
10:57:13 you saying back what sort of laptop Are you using. Are you also on a Windows machine.
10:57:22 I'm using Mac Book Pro says it's, it's, it's really unstable now, I have battery issue, and the lightning lightning issue. I think I have to visit, Apple store but well I expect like then one week or two weeks that I, I didn't have my laptop in hand,
10:57:50 I cannot think of any period that I shouldn't use my laptop in a single day so. So I'm, I'm postponing to repair disrupt top for like, you can rent a laptop till you know just works as well.
10:58:11 For how I used to run it from MIT.
10:58:05 Oh yeah yeah but uh.
10:58:07 That wasn't a kind of expected to be possible and cup, current history.
10:58:15 I mean, right now.
10:58:17 I mean you need a you need a computer. Yeah, and.
10:58:23 Right.
10:58:23 In, in a few days I should have a spare Mac computer.
10:58:30 I've ordered one of the new
10:58:34 Apple silicon, laptops, the 13 inch.
10:58:39 So I just wanted to compare it to see if it's really is faster than the other. The Intel silica for Monte Carlo and things, but I would have a spare one.
10:58:54 For Monte Carlo and things, but I would have a spare one. You can also take it into MIT, Computer Services to get it fixed.
10:59:02 but ok so you're, you're on Mac books and Bobby and Patrick are on Lenovo.
10:59:17 It might be worthwhile buying a spare Lenovo or something. I, you know, I have no problem spending money but, you know, everybody's Mac has a lot of personal information, and I don't know I think each one, like, take saying back I mean you need to back
10:59:29 back it up. First of all, you're going to give your laptop away to anybody to fix. You better backup everything on it, so I hope you have a day, you know you can buy one of the Seagate things I have these orange things that I used to back up and.
10:59:44 And then you need a loaner or something or a splitter whether it's something from our group or rented I don't really care but it.
10:59:52 That's something everybody needs to do from time to time it's not pleasant effort but if you need to spend money on these things, but it's kind of hard to grew his dog is managing stuff with loners and thing I don't know, it just seems like a lot of work
11:00:08 for you. I don't know, I mean it just paid the money and rent, something and back. I think the backup is more as as at least as important as the spare laptop, I think, yeah, yeah.
11:00:20 Now you Everyone should be backing up either to
11:00:26 get out, or to Dropbox you know i i back up to about four thing.
11:00:46 I've got to external hard drives, and Dropbox and the computer that's in my office. So, you know, I guess, Maybe we should move on. Yeah.
11:00:51 Anyway, I feel free to spend some money to make sure your computing is, you know, working functional. Yeah.
11:01:04 Okay, sang back Did you have any updates.
11:01:09 I mean, smaller stage of topic. So, yeah, they have substance Christian is a real important for me to.
11:01:18 So, yeah, of substance Christian is a real important for me to. I'm trying to submit some simulation.
11:01:23 When I suddenly like to 5,000,005 only young generation to the log file.
11:01:29 5 million events generated events, I got, like, 10 k reconstructed events.
11:01:38 So, by 10 k i mean if the experimental embedding the vicious data is building background around hundred Cavan's, so I slid 5 million so I took that so probably like 15 million or 500 million, I'm, I'm aiming to do 500 million.
11:02:02 After I relaxing relaxing more kinematics because I expect some big migration issues. I want to include some wider range of kinematics of that route, lower my statistics Indian.
11:02:22 So I stick like 500 million.
11:02:23 How long does that take the problem is vengeance, how this works.
11:02:34 Is it a week a month a year, I don't know, I never saw it, she's just been like for for for 10 million I expect like that would be in 111 submission for or 1010 million or 15 attempts.
11:02:56 Less than a $15 million. dollar one submission. One submission is usually done like three days so you think we're one one week, but because the things are parallel, I can do like 10 submission in one day and wait for like one week to be to be done in
11:03:14 parallel. That could be a case or in worst case scenario but in one month.
11:03:20 That's my question.
11:03:22 So, the worst case is a month to get 500 million.
11:03:27 Now that's my expectation. Okay. Okay now I just wanted a sense thanks yeah, Yeah.
11:03:33 But a sadness is that the CDs people got the first priority to simulate that and then I was trying to claim this the same priority for simulation.
11:03:47 But he turned out the CDs people did something wrong about that.
11:03:51 They're, they're random pseudo random generator was not working properly. And they're seeing some duplication in their events.
11:04:00 Okay. What's next, which may they're like four months of such submission garbage, so clear doing iterating the same thing. and it's like they're taking much course.
11:04:16 Yeah.
11:04:14 Well I guess the.
11:04:16 The advantage of going later is that some of the bugs will be fixed.
11:04:23 I will I I'm seeing the same bugs in my.
11:04:31 Let's say type medical type was motion which is a instantaneously done it.
11:04:36 So for now I'm just generating on file in a mighty form and then transfer transferring that into jelly form and then so meaning to do which is really annoying, but I am seeing way better and by doing so.
11:04:56 Yeah, it's kind of technical detail but, yeah, go.
11:05:01 Good.
11:05:03 Okay, thanks.
11:05:11 Patrick.
11:05:09 Yeah. So just really been focusing on simulation lately.
11:05:14 Brandon and I are going back and forth to just trying to compare simulation results just like an event by event level, just to make sure that we're kind of, you know, doing our event selection, the same way and you know everything's consistent, so we're
11:05:34 working on that right now. I know brand into working on ways to kind of relax the relaxed event selection to, to get more events, maybe he can kind of update, talk a little bit about that.
11:05:47 Great. No right, no, i.
11:05:51 So, Patrick's fine I been looking at relaxing the requirements for the negatively charged can. So previously we were looking at. Selecting events.
11:06:05 With all four particles present with the RGA analysis cuts.
11:06:11 And that in itself is quite restrictive and results and limited sample of the fire event so we can detect plus. So, what I did was I went back and relax the ID on the negative can just requiring a negatively charged particle.
11:06:33 But putting the coats on the electronic proton and positively charged can, to see if if we can still get the five peak, which which we can and we can actually get a significant fraction more of events, I think we're just using like a loose and builder
11:06:56 cut for all the particles comes out to about 25% more.
11:07:10 So it's, it's, it's suddenly impossible Avenue The only issue is like the red with the resolution that we currently have data, but it, but it's certainly better than not requiring a negatively charged count.
11:07:18 So just three particles in the final state.
11:07:21 So, so it has a benefit over that.
11:07:25 So that's just like an avenue
11:07:30 for.
11:07:33 It's up to you and Patrick on whether or not you want to look at the fully exclusive final state.
11:07:40 Well, I'm you know in the past, you know the initial expert who came from Hermes and we didn't have any recoil proton detection then people did physics, you know, I mean, he was looking at us for the pioneer and he'll probably talk about it but I have
11:07:56 no problem, reducing the exclusivity to get more statistics, you'll get more background of course but, you know, particularly for the five where I think the statistics are at a premium so.
11:08:13 And you know, you can you can do both, you know you can you can analyze and put a tight caught on and get a certain result and then you have the loser cut and you have more statistics and then you can look for consistency, and
11:08:26 you know you could decide in the end that the loser.
11:08:31 Loser cut analysis was actually fine.
11:08:34 I, you know, with the our associate or so I actually think it's it's useful to do it.
11:08:40 Yeah, I'll give it a shot I think maybe a good benchmark would be comparing it against the symmetry analysis with the flakes Yeah.
11:08:50 Yeah, that's a good idea actually Yeah, that's a good idea. So that is one way.
11:08:58 I had a question.
11:09:00 Did plus six produce across a fight cross section.
11:09:04 It did. I think it's Joe's Santoro has a thesis for the five cross section. Okay.
11:09:14 And so that was it with the six GB I have to check. Yeah, I'll be good, some time to see that like just the summary plots of what that looks like. And then what women the same like and Bobby been doing this, they kind of compare their analysis or the
11:09:29 kinematic reach with what was done in class six and was class 12 should be larger.
11:09:35 So I would, at some point, it would be interesting to see that.
11:09:39 Yeah, I think that's that's good idea.
11:09:45 Right, okay. That all sounds good. So shushing Did you have anything else you want to mention.
11:09:53 Um, so I've been working on the computing.
11:10:00 Call hours instruction and, as well as the literature review for the meetup.
11:10:10 This week.
11:10:11 Yeah, I guess we'll we'll discuss that in detail. Tomorrow, I mean about the milk.
11:10:16 Yeah, yeah, yeah,
11:10:20 yeah I don't have others to just for the others. we did have a polarized helium three meeting last week I guess was it Monday I think.
11:10:31 Yeah.
11:10:33 So I think, you know, we have a kind of a plan to polarize by the end of summer
11:10:43 at Jefferson Lab, and
11:10:49 look forward to, maybe, visiting Jefferson Lab over the summer sometime in the summer to meet in person on that one.
11:10:58 Good. Thank you.
11:11:04 Igor, is there's not too much to tell because this presentation. Also, I finished with my presentations. I hope for the next couple of months.
11:11:13 So I spoke with the college meet about a reconstruction of photons in class 12, because the workers said the by not peak is not a clean enough.
11:11:26 So by the speaking with the call, he said, that is a problem currently is.
11:11:33 There are some contamination for false neutral particles that is identified when you look on the fortress, you know, then you find false signals. So this problem is not so severe when you go to the additional exclusivity cards, but by looking on two photos
11:11:53 it's a little bit problematic. And I can get the very clean a pie not invite impossible but the problem is, of course, for a miss McMaster was a problem that I know the technique.
11:12:08 So, currently I'm also trying to do some apply some cards to clean out is this music must speak but a I think is it.
11:12:32 We will have to wait until it will improve event builder to identify particles.
11:12:34 Yeah, probably.
11:12:32 I think as I said earlier, I think this is a good thing to do.
11:12:39 Okay, um, Anything else we need to discuss.
11:12:54 That's not so
11:12:58 I guess there's no meeting tomorrow, the virtual meeting I think there is no speaker so
11:13:05 we'll be meeting at known.